In addition to local notables, the Taipei-based daily took advantage of a visit to Taipei by the well-known journalist and mainland dissident Liu Pin-yen, who joined in the discussions as an honored guest.
Moderator: What is the best way to integrate Chinese culture on both sides of the Taiwan Straits?
Liu Pin-yen: The most realistic approach is to focus on the basic relationship between Taiwan and the mainland. Although Taiwan is in a transitional period, its political and economic development in recent years is very instructive for the mainland. But if we look at it from another angle, Taiwan has done little to improve the spiritual quality of life, and its influence on the mainland in this respect is limited. Nevertheless, Taiwan's educational success can be a model for the mainland's reforms.
At present, quite a few people in the mainland think that the long accumulated problems there can be solved once the poor are rich and the people in bondage are free. But such thinking does not touch on the critical work which needs to be done, which is to help the defective that is, the socially alienated become normal.
As subjects of the Chinese Communists, many people lack a sense of belonging, and some are even hostile toward society and the regime. A goodly number of public utilities, such as telephone booths and garbage bins, are destroyed by people on purpose; quite a few people feel justified in doing things that hurt other people, but which are of no benefit to themselves. Such phenomena exemplify the submergence of basic human characteristics under an unreasonable political system.
On the other hand, if there have been some improvements over the past 40 years, they are also reflected in the people. Many of them have awakened from their state of being controlled in ignorance. They have become more self-conscious and clear-minded people who know how to protect themselves and how to make judgments.
The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) occupies a very special position in mainland China because it's an indigenous party, which expelled American imperialism and turned its back on its sponsor, the Soviet Union. This historical background legitimized the Chinese Communists' authority over the people. But authority was eventually concentrated in a single person, and we can say that the death of Mao Tse-tung symbolized the collapse of Chinese authoritarianism.
Mainland China's problems are still confused and chaotic. Although people have suffered a great deal under the rule of the Chinese Communists, they have developed an independent character that is unrivaled in Chinese history. As a matter of fact, without such purging, the feudalistic, traditional, corrupting thoughts that have accumulated over such a long history could not easily be cleared away, even if certain economic achievements were made. In this respect, the mainland has been enriched because of its prolonged tribulations.
As for unification [between the two sides of the Taiwan Straits], I don't think it's an urgent issue. After all, both sides have other urgent problems to worry about.
Ju Gau-jeng, a Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) member of the Legislative Yuan: Speaking of the way to integrate Chinese culture, I always think that the all-embracing spirit of Confucianism in Chinese traditional culture can serve as a very important foundation. Among the places composed mainly of Chinese communities—excluding mainland China—we rarely see the majority culture forced on the minority. There are also very few records of cultural exploitation in Chinese history.
I am very worried about those Chinese who despise, or even hate, traditional culture. How can people without cultural background absorb another culture? To absorb another culture is not a passive activity. On the contrary, we should stand on the foundation of our own culture and actively absorb the essence of other cultures.
For example, being industrious and thrifty is one of the merits of Chinese culture. It can serve as the best foundation for absorbing the Western idea of efficiency. Being industrious and thrifty has internal value, while being efficient has an external value. The combination of both values will hasten the growth of culture. Therefore, I always think that we should integrate traditional culture through the realization of repeated criticism, re-evaluation, and re-creation.
Dr. Lee Chin-chuan, a professor of journalism at the University of Minnesota: We can discuss the Chinese people from the perspectives of blood, law, and culture. Distinctions appear because of these factors. Some people are Chinese by blood but foreigners by law. Some countries, such as Singapore, are not Chinese by law, yet their culture is Chinese. Because of such distinctions, communication is particularly important for the Chinese future.
In the studies of problems in Taiwan, in the mainland, and between both sides of the Taiwan Straits, communication is of particular importance. With regard to the future relationship between Taiwan and the mainland, certain improvements in mutual understanding have already been made, but both sides are too proud for the relationship's further development. It would be better not to politicize these communications. Both parties ought to focus their attention on the common aspects of their long cultural experience. The hostility between the two sides should be minimized as much as possible to create a positive foundation for the future of all Chinese.
Overseas Chinese in Bangkok—"We can discuss the Chinese people from the perspectives of blood, law, and culture."
Hu Fu, a professor of political science at National Taiwan University in Taipei: My personal opinion is that certain characteristics in Chinese traditional culture need to be reformed or integrated. First of all, authoritarianism has been emphasized too much and has become formalized. The master of a house possesses the absolute authority once he is acknowledged by his elders. Such authoritarianism developed in families, expanded into society, and finally penetrated the level of politics. As a result, all levels were suppressed, and the really talented people were prevented from gaining recognition. Such formalized authoritarianism can be seen on both sides of the Taiwan Straits.
Second, under the influence of traditional authoritarianism, Chinese ways of working things out depend heavily on personal connections. Although it is not wrong to value personal relationships, it doesn't benefit the society if people indulge in maneuvering connections for their personal advantage. Things have to be done on the basis of law.
Third, justice has sometimes been sacrificed to achieve "harmony" and to practice the "golden mean," both of which were valued in Chinese traditional society. Although violence might have been avoided, upward momentum was also lost. Progress was slowed down because of the absence of competition and creativity.
Fourth, collectivism was valued too much in the Chinese tradition. An individual in a group is like a cog in a machine. Individual human rights mean nothing in the face of the so-called group interests. Such a phenomenon is in conflict with modern social trends that emphasize individualism, value human rights, and encourage the expression of unique personal characteristics. How to balance individualism and collectivism is very important for the reconstruction of Chinese culture.
Chang Chun-hung, Secretary-General of the DPP: In the U.S., the most often asked question among Chinese from the mainland is, "Why is the U.S. so successful and why has everything in China failed?" Many people have blamed the failure of mainland China on the national character. I don't agree with them. I believe that the political system is at the heart of all the problems. People are only retailers of their culture. But political authority is the wholesaler. It can reform human character and even culture to the greatest extent.
How can we create a humanistic culture through a political system? I think there is no better way than to establish democratic politics. The existence of an opposition party is the key to practicing democracy. Fortunately, among the Chinese societies around the world, a real opposition party was finally born in Taiwan recently. This party was not handed down to society by the ruling party, but was obtained through the upward struggle of the people.
As the secretary general of the opposition party, I sincerely hope that democracy can be realized in Taiwan through peaceful elections and not through bloody, violent means. After all, violence may only bring another authoritarian dictatorship.
S.K Lao, a visiting professor of philosophy at Tsing Hua University in Hsinchu: The future of China, generally speaking, involves not only problems of integrating culture, politics, and economics, but also involves complex issues such as ideals and realities, tradition and modernization, and process and goals. Although authoritarianism is considered the main characteristic of Chinese political culture, we have to consider carefully whether it is typically Chinese or if it was a necessity in the process of general social transformation. Only when we fully understand the relationship between authoritarianism and Chinese culture can we criticize our tradition fairly.
Although it's necessary to question authoritarianism, equal attention should be given to the best way to establish the rule of law in order to balance individualism and collectivism. It is impossible to abandon our traditional culture—and we should not abandon it. Further advancement can only be accomplished on the basis of traditional culture. We cannot ignore traditions while talking about the Chinese future.
With regard to the urgent problems between Taiwan and the mainland, a number of possibilities are imaginable in the long term. But in the short term, all methods of improving the mutual relationship must be based on reducing political hatred.
Chen Ying-chen, a writer based in Taipei: Chinese culture has many faces. Generally speaking, Chinese around the world can be said to constitute distinct cultural circles. The Chinese in the mainland, Taiwan, or Hong Kong actually manifest three different forms of Chinese culture. Although they all possess certain Chinese characteristics, it is not easy to integrate them. If integration is really necessary, people on both sides of the Taiwan Straits have to acknowledge and even crush the contradictions that have developed and remained since the Cold War began.
Besides, all three groups have to understand that they come from different backgrounds, and therefore they should respect the fact that they all exist as different concrete realities. One group should not try to absorb the others under the format favored by itself.
Finally, it's very important for people in both the mainland and Taiwan to communicate sincerely. The national feeling shown by people in both East and West Germany is very touching. People in Taiwan should also sympathize with the people in mainland China and give up the skeptical attitude of rivalry.
Wang Tso-yung, a professor of economics at National Taiwan University: Confucianism is the mainstream of Chinese culture and it is made up of two major factors: the family and an agricultural economy. An agricultural economy obeys nature, values harmony, respects supernatural things, and embraces all differences. Although the family is the origin of Chinese authority and feudalism, love in the family enables the master of the family to exercise authority with moderation. Of course this situation is now changing. Today's problem is how to establish a new culture in line with the changing reality. To solve this problem, Chinese intellectuals around the world need to work together.
Hu Fu: Taiwan used to be under the control of strong men and was ruled by one powerful party. Pressed by the call from local people to participate in politics, the Kuomintang (KMT) managed to maintain its authority through systematic compromise, exchange of benefits in local elections, and connections with local factions. But such authority became more and more difficult to maintain under the impact of social and economic change. This was clearly shown in the general elections in December [1989]. This may be a good lesson for the mainland.
Yet I'm pessimistic about the political development of the mainland because of the low social mobility and the high regard for socialism and statism. Nevertheless, the kind of authoritarianism practiced in mainland China has its inner defects, such as the vacuum left by the death of its major leaders and the corruption of its civil service system. Sooner or later the adoption of democracy is inevitable.
With regard to the influence of Taiwan on mainland China, it is limited because of the major political and economic differences between the two areas. But some influence can be explained by the "impact theory," which holds that the democratic efforts in Taiwan will certainly have an impact on the mainland, and some socialistic aspects of the mainland will also have an impact on Taiwan.
The last thing I want to emphasize is that all the different cultures in today's world have to live by symbiosis, not to mention we Chinese people who spring from the same culture. I think the intellectuals on both sides of the Taiwan Straits should work harder to have a greater impact upon each other in order to find solutions to the problems Chinese will face in the near future.
Jaw Shau-kong, a KMT member of the Legislative Yuan: In view of the political situation, neither federation nor union with mainland China is workable. But there will be major changes in the mainland in the next decade. Events like the Tienanmen incident can actually be called a bloody revolution. I believe that the current happenings in Eastern Europe will also have a huge impact on mainland China and the steps taken by Eastern Europe brighten the future of democracy in mainland China. But the mainland may also choose to go backward and thus become the most conservative area in the Communist bloc. The Chinese students studying abroad need to be united to stimulate internal reform in the mainland.
At this stage, Taiwan has to be sure that it is self-sufficient in defense, diplomacy, and economics so that any threats from the mainland will be ineffective. Only then is the further development of Taiwan and its influence on the mainland through the exchange of information possible. The real guarantee for Taiwan's security is for the mainland to practice democracy. We also have to be cautious not to provide any excuse for mainland China to attack Taiwan. That's why it's reasonable to say Taiwan has to wait—while building up our own power—for changes to appear in mainland China. It's unwise to propose such a risky course such as Taiwan independence.
Moderator: What is the role of economics in helping develop more cooperation between the two sides of the Taiwan Straits?
A family outing in Hong Kong—"Chinese around the world can be said to constitute distinct cultural circles."
Jaw Shau-kong: Among all the various factors, economics is the most likely one to link Taiwan and the mainland. Mainland China possesses labor, resources, and a market; Taiwan is equipped with the intelligence and know how; and Hong Kong has manpower and experience in finance and technology therefore, they can all benefit if they supplement each other.
But serious political differences prevent economics from bringing about integration at this time. Most of the Taiwan investors in the mainland are there to make quick money. As for the mainland, gradually opening Hainan Island or coastal provinces such as Kwangtung and Fukien will be an effective way to achieve economic integration.
Chen Ying-chen: With respect to economic integration, I think that the primary job is to review scientifically the results of economic development in Taiwan and in the mainland. Only with serious study can we know where the real problems lie. So far I haven't found much information in this field. Probably because there are too many obstacles to obtaining materials and because of American influence, we tended not to touch this field and we didn't achieve any constructive results. We need to study the past before we proceed with the work of economic integration.
Wang Tso-yung: Speaking of economic development, the mainland is resource-rich and very good in the high tech field, but it is behind in consumer products. In comparison, Taiwan is highly developed in low and medium technology and is rich in consumer goods. These two areas can supply each other's needs. Yet the success of economic integration—which is different from political integration—relies on positive market developments. It's better to let the market alone, to let it operate by the natural laws of the market.
In my opinion, Taiwan's economic development is strong for three reasons: it is a free market, politics and society are stable, and there is basic law and order. None of these is true in mainland China, and this is what the mainland has to learn from Taiwan.
Moderator: What will make it possible for Taiwan, the mainland, and Hong Kong to co-exist and prosper together?
Chen Ying-chen: Even though Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore are NICs, they differ very much socially and economically. Each has developed in its own way, although a couple of characteristics in their experience are the same. For example, they played a role in America's post-World War II global strategy, and they were suppliers of lower-grade consumer products in the Pacific region. Second, they all developed under authoritarian governments. Taiwan used to be ruled under strict regulations. Hong Kong as a British colony never enjoyed any real democracy, and Singapore as a city state was like a big enterprise managed by a super strong chairman of the board. I don't think the mainland would benefit from such developmental experience.
Nevertheless, some lessons can still be learned from the developmental processes of these three areas. The intellectuals within the mainland Chinese reformist group should equip themselves with global concepts so they can understand the role of mainland China in the world economic division of labor and thus know how to evaluate themselves correctly.
Second, mainland China should recognize the importance of democratization. In this aspect, Eastern Europe is a much more appropriate model than the four little dragons [South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore].
I want to emphasize that the countries and areas around the Asian Pacific basin are now changing roles. Southeast Asia and mainland China are gradually replacing the original four little dragons to be the suppliers of lower-end consumer products, while the four little dragons are taking over Japan's original role in this area. Although Japan has the ambition to take over the former American role, its unpopularity in this area makes it very difficult to realize such ambitions. Mainland China, with its high-tech capability, may play a very important role in this area if it does not limit itself to producing only lower-end consumer products. In that sense, it may speed up the coming of a new era in the Pacific basin.
Jaw Shau-kong: Generally speaking, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore have paid attention to human nature and achieved considerable success during their development of liberalized economics. I think the mainland should be able to learn something from this. Politics and economics are two sides of the same coin. Neither Hong Kong nor Singapore is democratized, yet Taiwan is heading toward democracy. The experience of Taiwan is instructive for the mainland.
My conclusion is that Taiwan, Hong Kong, and mainland China will benefit from one another if they cooperate and co-exist peacefully. If they tried to destroy one another, none of them would gain anything. Both the economic power of Taiwan and the role of mainland China in balancing regional power have gained them a certain degree of respect from other countries. If both sides of the Taiwan Straits can respect each other and work together to solve the problems of integration, the realization of unification long desired by Chinese around the world might be possible in the future.