In June 1991, Jaw Shau-kong (趙少康) took over as administrator of the Environmental Protection Administration (EPA) from Eugene Chien, who had headed the EPA since 1987, when it was elevated from a bureau. (Chien is now head of the Ministry of Transportation and Communications.) To take the post, Jaw had to leave the Legislative Yuan, where he was considered one of its most dynamic and progressive lawmakers. Before be coming a member in 1987, he was a Taipei city councilman from 1982 to 1986. Jaw ran for both positions on an environmental platform. In the following interview he discusses the challenges of his new position with the EPA.
FCR: Why did you at first hesitate to take the job of EPA administrator?
Jaw Shau-kong: It's a very difficult job, especially since people look to the government to do everything. Everyone had a part in making the environment the way it is, but then they expect to sit back and let the EPA deal with the problems. Also, the EPA does not work independently. If it were just a question of us doing our job well to get things done, that would be very easy. But it's not like that. Our work relies on the cooperation of many other ministries and government enterprises, and especially the local governments. If a local government is under pressure from the city council, or because of a special connection to local industry it is reluctant to carry out its job, the EPA doesn't have the power to interfere. So it's difficult. On the other hand, it's a challenge. So finally I accepted the appointment. If you look at the bright side, it's a chance to do something.
FCR: Have you observed changes in the general attitude toward environmental protection since you first got involved in politics?
Jaw: It's getting better. When I first ran for Taipei city councilman eleven years ago, very few people were concerned about environmental protection. Now, people know it's important. But the trouble is they don't do anything about it. So we need to educate people and lead them, ask them, even beg them to do it, not just know it. Before, people didn't even know. Now the situation is different. The challenge is how to change the attitude from knowing something to doing something. I think this will have to come about through education, media support, and even social movements.
FCR: Taiwan has over sixty political parties, yet none of them has an environmental platform. Why haven't we seen the evolution of a green party?
Jaw: I think one of the reasons is that Taiwan is a developing country, not a developed country. So economic development is still the most important thing in everyone's mind. That's one reason why no political party is pushing environmental issues. The Chinese way is more moderate. They try to cover everything, to work out a compromise—yes, the environment is important, but making money is also very important. So they try to figure out how to put them together. The idea is not really wrong. But also, environmental protection is becoming an issue for candidates running for local office.
FCR: What are your administration's priorities?
Jaw: Cleaning up the rivers—not only the Tamsui—is a top priority. For example, down south we have the Houching River and the Erjen River. The other priority is air pollution caused by cars and motorcycles. So we are going to work out a very aggressive program to do something about that problem in the cities. For example, in Taipei, 90 percent of the air pollution is from cars and motorcycles. Another important area is waste water emissions from factories.
FCR: What about the problem of weak enforcement of EPA policies, and environmental laws and regulations?
Jaw: The reason why enforcement of existing laws is weak is because all enforcement is actually carried out by the local governments. Very often, local politicians are afraid to upset their constituents. They don't want to be the bad guy. And because of the political contributions and financial assistance they receive from local industries, they are reluctant to do their job. Often very diligent, hardworking local EPA chiefs are fired by the county magistrates because they did their job too well.
What we are planning to do is to organize three task forces, one each for the northern, middle, and southern parts of the island. We will have our own investigators working with the local government to check on the factories in the area. And although we probably don't have enough manpower, we will concentrate all our available resources in one area. For example, if we feel that Taoyuan county has problems, then for three months we'll put our entire task force in Taoyuan to find out what's going on. After that we'll move to another location.
FCR: Do you think that the EPA should have the power to override the authority of other government agencies to get environmental clean-ups moving faster?
Jaw: I think it should be that way. But then people will probably criticize it and say that it violates the spirit of democracy, because each level of government must have its own power. But even in the United States, the EPA is very powerful, and very often it can override state governments. In the beginning it respected the state governments, but then they found that it just doesn't work. So the EPA took the power back. That's what I'm planning to do here.
FCR: Premier Hau once said that while it is good to be concerned about the effects of economic and industrial growth on the environment, we should also realize that without industry Taiwan cannot survive. The Six-Year National Development Plan is already under way, and it includes many projects that can be potentially damaging to the environment. What's the EPA doing?
Jaw: Right now we have a bill pending in the Legislative Yuan called the Environmental Impact Assessment [EIA] Bill. Once it is passed, it will require all projects to submit an EIA prior to construction. We will then review that report to see if the project is environmentally sound and able to comply with pollution standards. If it isn't, we will turn down the project. And I make it very clear—no project that violates our policy to protect the environment will be approved.
A construction guarantee system is part of the bill. Once an EIA is approved, the contractors will have to sign a contract guaranteeing that they will stick to the standards in their original plan. If they don't, they will be punished. I'm also going to recommend that a certain percentage of total construction budgets, say 3 or 5 percent, be set aside for environmental protection facilities.
FCR: What about government projects that are believed by some environmental groups to be harmful to the environment, such as moving the cement industry to the relatively undeveloped eastern coast of the island?
Jaw: Any project—it doesn't matter if it's initiated by the government or the private sector—will have to submit an EIA. If we believe that the project could be seriously damaging to the environment in a way which cannot be compensated, we will turn it down.
FCR: Then government industries or government projects will not get preferential treatment.
Jaw: No. In fact, I think government projects should be more strictly reviewed.
FCR: In the past, there were very few open protests from people whose health had been affected or whose property had been damaged by pollution from neighboring industries. But since martial law was lifted in 1987, we've seen more assertive protests. Do you think such demonstrations are effective?
Jaw: Of course, protesting is one way for the people to express their dissatisfaction, and sometimes it will get the attention of government or industry. But how to do it just right is sometimes very difficult. Environmental issues are sometimes very emotional. If it becomes too emotional you begin to lose your focus on the issue you're struggling for, or the goal of your demonstration. And then it goes too far. For example, we've seen cases recently where a factory is willing to improve, but the demonstrators won't agree because they think it means they are surrendering, and they will lose face. But sometimes compromise is necessary. How to show you're angry, how to show you're dissatisfied in the right way, is an art.
FCR: Government industries are largely untouchable. Will it be at all possible for residents to sue government enterprises for damages, and win?
Jaw: I think so, especially after the passage of the Pollution Damage Dispute Resolution Act, which is presently in the Legislative Yuan. This will outline how claims for pollution damage are to be resolved. In the EPA, we feel this is very important so we recently held a joint meeting with court prosecutors from all over the island to discuss and work with our people so that they will be more familiar with environmental laws.
FCR: A well-known director of the Japanese EPA said a few years ago that you know you're a good EPA director when you're cursed by people, disliked by councilmen and legislators, despised by industry, and are generally un popular with everyone. Do you think your job will affect your popularity should you run for mayor of Taipei city when it becomes an elected position?
Jaw: Well...basically yes. I haven't been in this position for very long and I'm finding that very often I have to be the bad guy, to say things people don't like to hear. But you have to say it anyway. But I don't think that will really affect my popularity with the general public. I will probably be disliked by some special interest groups and industries. But not by all, because there are many industry people who care about the environment. But some just want to make money, and they don't want to take any social responsibility. And those people will probably dislike, even hate me. But I think most people will stand behind what I am trying to do for environmental protection in Taiwan.